I've discovered my old blog from years ago and have decided to update this and continue to post as this October will be the 100 year anniversary of these events.
I'm not a historian or academic. This blog is for families of the servicemen involved. Much more information is available today than was available in the 1980's/ 1990's when I first became interested in these events as a result of my own interest in family history.
My Great Grandfather John Stephen Stroud (known as Steve to his family) was one of 9 seamen killed in action while on HMS Dragon when it was at Riga providing support to Latvia during their war of Independence. Their gun position took a direct hit from shells fired by Russio-German forces in Riga who were in occupation after the end of WW1.
These German forces ( many Freicorps) had been allowed to stay in the Baltic under the terms of the Armistice but under the orders of their Commander Major General Von der Goltz they joined forces with those of Pavel Bermondt-Avalov's army rejecting all ultimatums given for them to leave and return to Germany clearly having their own plans for the Baltic states.
I hope that this blog will be of interest and I welcome contact from the families of those involved in the campaign.
There may be a few issues with old links and photographs which I will address over the next week or so.
Monday, 30 September 2019
Thursday, 10 November 2011
Memorial event for HMS "Dragon"
Spotted today on the UK in Latvia website:
For more information about HMS Dragon and the 9 seamen killed
The wreath-laying ceremony at Bolderaja is an annual event that honours the sacrifice of 9 British and Irish sailors on board of HMS Dragon. HMS Dragon had provided artillery fire cover for defending Riga against the attacking army of General Avalov-Bermont in 1919, when the Republic of Latvia was just a year old and needed support to protect its independence.Memorial event for HMS "Dragon"
Representatives of the Latvian Navy, Defence Ministry, Embassy of France and Embassy of the UK take part in the ceremony. This year it took place on Wednesday, 9 November.
For more information about HMS Dragon and the 9 seamen killed
Tuesday, 2 November 2010
SOLD AT AUCTION ITEM :NAVAL JOURNAL - FIRST WORLD WAR and RUSSIAN CIVIL WAR
From time to time I find some really interesting and relevant item described online that relate to to to the Allied intervention in the Baltic and especially HMS Dragon but due to lack of time I will often save details of the page for later.
In some cases diaries and journals have come up for auction which I would love to take a peek at.....problem is that I only find out about these items after the sale (not that I could afford to bid!) and now I find that I can no longer find the original entry using google!
I have tried the Imperial War Museum which has some diaries and audio tapes in which seamen describe their experiences but not this one.
"journal kept throughout the Great War and during the subsequent Russian Civil War, from 21 July 1914 to 3 January 1920, recording service on board the Acheron Class destroyer HMS Amphion, serving with the 3rd Division of the 1st Destroyer Flotilla, from 31 July 1914, and participating in the Battle of Heligoland Bight on 38 August; transferring with the rest of the crew of the Ferret to the M Class destroyer HMS Nepean on 5 April 1916, serving on her until the end of the war; transferring to the D Class cruiser HMS Dragon on 8 October 1918 ("with 2 Russian Officers & one British") and recording the Dragon'sservice in the Baltic during the civil war, arriving at Riga on 13 October 1919, where they "Found German General & his troops who had been guarding Riga had turned Bolshevists & were attacking Rig"...Sat 8th Nov. Received signal from C in C to hold Riga & Libau at all costs. Mon 10th Nov. We opened fire on Cement Factory occupied by Germans at 6.30 a.m. At 2.45 we started to fire at an armoured train which was shelling the town of Riga. The Germans were using Gas shells & were killing many of the civil population. At 8.30 we again started to bombard the Cement Factory while the Letts surrounded it & at 10.0 PM they took it at the point of the bayonet..."), the journal ending with the Dragon's return to Sheerness on 3 January 1920, some 150 pages, in a notebook, canvas-backed naval chart wrappers, postcard of the Dragon pasted over opening text, minor staining and signs of wear, 4to, 1914-1920
In some cases diaries and journals have come up for auction which I would love to take a peek at.....problem is that I only find out about these items after the sale (not that I could afford to bid!) and now I find that I can no longer find the original entry using google!
I have tried the Imperial War Museum which has some diaries and audio tapes in which seamen describe their experiences but not this one.
"journal kept throughout the Great War and during the subsequent Russian Civil War, from 21 July 1914 to 3 January 1920, recording service on board the Acheron Class destroyer HMS Amphion, serving with the 3rd Division of the 1st Destroyer Flotilla, from 31 July 1914, and participating in the Battle of Heligoland Bight on 38 August; transferring with the rest of the crew of the Ferret to the M Class destroyer HMS Nepean on 5 April 1916, serving on her until the end of the war; transferring to the D Class cruiser HMS Dragon on 8 October 1918 ("with 2 Russian Officers & one British") and recording the Dragon'sservice in the Baltic during the civil war, arriving at Riga on 13 October 1919, where they "Found German General & his troops who had been guarding Riga had turned Bolshevists & were attacking Rig"...Sat 8th Nov. Received signal from C in C to hold Riga & Libau at all costs. Mon 10th Nov. We opened fire on Cement Factory occupied by Germans at 6.30 a.m. At 2.45 we started to fire at an armoured train which was shelling the town of Riga. The Germans were using Gas shells & were killing many of the civil population. At 8.30 we again started to bombard the Cement Factory while the Letts surrounded it & at 10.0 PM they took it at the point of the bayonet..."), the journal ending with the Dragon's return to Sheerness on 3 January 1920, some 150 pages, in a notebook, canvas-backed naval chart wrappers, postcard of the Dragon pasted over opening text, minor staining and signs of wear, 4to, 1914-1920
Sold for £576 inclusive of Buyer's Premium
Statement of Henry Elijah Baker HMS Wryneck 18th October 1919
The subject of food or rather the lack of adequate suppies for Seamen being sent out to the Baltic during 1919 is a common theme when looking through some of the documents in the National archives.
Henry's statement, which was taken following his arrest shows that the shortage of food caused consideable discontent and unrest amongst the crew resulting in a group of seamen leaving their ships and travelling to London by train.
ADM 1/8570/291
Henry's statement, which was taken following his arrest shows that the shortage of food caused consideable discontent and unrest amongst the crew resulting in a group of seamen leaving their ships and travelling to London by train.
"in London several upon seeing the Police broke from the party. The Inspector was informed we wanted to go to Whitehall. We formed fours by common consent and marched to the police station. I had the petition on arrival at the Police station, and also on arrival here on Tuesday. We left on on Wednesday and I gave it to someone else in our party. No civilian has at any time been on board to address a meeting on bolshevism or has any attempt been made to cause us to refuse duty. None of us would have left the ship had we been sure of better food conditions in the Baltic. I refuse to give the names of the other men in the party with it now or who have left it"signed Henry Elijah Baker Cell 69
ADM 1/8570/291
OOH LA LA!! UK-France Military co-operation 2010
I noticed that the papers today are full of dramatic headlines and articles about plans for Anglo-French co-operation on military matters.
Of course, many people like me who have a personal interest in the British Navy's role in the Latvian War of Independence know that the concept of Anglo-French co-operation is not new even if previously it was on a much smaller scale.
My Great-Grandfather John Stephen Stroud and 8 other seamen (some of them boys aged 17) where killed when their ship HMS Dragon, which was sent to help defend Riga was shelled by Russio-German forces under the command of Bermondt Avalov during October 1919 .
HMS Dragon was under the command of Commodore Jean Joseph Brisson of the French Navy and he in turn had orders from the British Admiral Sir Walter Henry Cowan.
The London Gazette of Tuesday 6th of April 1920 contains a record of the action at Riga:
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French Naval Ship Commemorates Captain Brison of the Freedom Battles Latvijas armijas 90. gadadienas mājas lapa
Of course, many people like me who have a personal interest in the British Navy's role in the Latvian War of Independence know that the concept of Anglo-French co-operation is not new even if previously it was on a much smaller scale.
My Great-Grandfather John Stephen Stroud and 8 other seamen (some of them boys aged 17) where killed when their ship HMS Dragon, which was sent to help defend Riga was shelled by Russio-German forces under the command of Bermondt Avalov during October 1919 .
HMS Dragon was under the command of Commodore Jean Joseph Brisson of the French Navy and he in turn had orders from the British Admiral Sir Walter Henry Cowan.
The London Gazette of Tuesday 6th of April 1920 contains a record of the action at Riga:
"Owing to the situation in the Gulf of Finland and the necessity of supporting the advnce of the Estonians on the left flank of the Russian Army, I was unable to leave those waters myself and so requested Commodore Brisson, the French Senior Naval Officer, who had by then proceeded to Riga , to take charge of the operations there, and to open fire on all positions within range on the left bank of the Dvina River, at the expiration of the time given in my ultimatum to Prince Avaloff Bermont , who was ostensibly in command of the troops occupying those positions and attacking Riga.Remembrance Ceremonies take place in Riga and flowers are laid at memorials on land and at sea to remember those who lost their lives during this time and to also reflect on the contribution of the British and French Navy in helping Latvia to achieve its Independence.
This Commodore Brisson most faithfully and effectively did at noon on the 15th October, apparently much to the surprise of Bermont, who had , in reply to my ultimatum, stated that he was friendly to the Allies and was only resisting Bolshevism, and disowned all connection with the Germans, and whose forces were in position and in little shelter, in some places less than one thousand yards from ours and the French ships"
French Naval Ship Commemorates Captain Brison of the Freedom Battles Latvijas armijas 90. gadadienas mājas lapa
Monday, 23 August 2010
HMS Cassandra, HMS Myrtle and HMS Gentian found off Estonian coast
Thank you to John for spotting this article by Martin Wainswright on the Guardian News Website. I hope there will be more news about this in the coming weeks.
Saturday, 22 May 2010
HMS Princess Margaret at Riga December 1918-January 1919
I've mentioned that I'm really interested in HMS Princess Margaret and her role in the campaign, as not only was she in the thick of it, when HMS Dragon was shelled, but also earlier in January 1919 .
Thanks to google I found this entry on a medal auction website (Dix Noonan Webb)
"H.M.S. PRINCESS MARGARET berthed at Riga on 19 December 1918, where she landed her marines on the 27th who, accompanied by an armed party from H.M.S. CERES, marched through the town. The following day frightened British subjects began to arrive on board. On the 29th it was heard that a Lettish Regiment had mutinied, and arrangements were made for the defence of the approaches to H.M. vessels by the aid of search lights, and the use of star and lyddite shells. Even more refugees joined PRINCESS MARGARET that night, bringing the total on board to 392 souls, 143 men, 169 women and 80 children. From 30 December to 3 January 1919 armed parties were constantly landed to police the town and so ward off menacing parties"........read more here
Thanks to google I found this entry on a medal auction website (Dix Noonan Webb)
"H.M.S. PRINCESS MARGARET berthed at Riga on 19 December 1918, where she landed her marines on the 27th who, accompanied by an armed party from H.M.S. CERES, marched through the town. The following day frightened British subjects began to arrive on board. On the 29th it was heard that a Lettish Regiment had mutinied, and arrangements were made for the defence of the approaches to H.M. vessels by the aid of search lights, and the use of star and lyddite shells. Even more refugees joined PRINCESS MARGARET that night, bringing the total on board to 392 souls, 143 men, 169 women and 80 children. From 30 December to 3 January 1919 armed parties were constantly landed to police the town and so ward off menacing parties"........read more here
The internet is such a wonderful thing isn't it. I must have googled HMS Princess Margaret several times but then every now and again something brilliant appears....of course it's given me lots of new areas for my "research" ..........landing parties?.......HMS Ceres?
Monday, 3 May 2010
" Britishers killed by the Reds" New York Times Nov 2 1919
"Baron and Baroness Woerman and J.T. Armitstead slain in Riga.
LONDON, Nov 1.-Baron and Baroness Woerman, nephew and niece of the late Lord Armitstead, were murdered by the Bolsheviki on Riga last May, according to news reaching the Armitstead family at Dundee, Scotland.
The advices add that a grand nephew Lord Armitstead, John Cecil Armitstead, was shot in March after having been in prison three months"
New York Times Nov 2 1919
LONDON, Nov 1.-Baron and Baroness Woerman, nephew and niece of the late Lord Armitstead, were murdered by the Bolsheviki on Riga last May, according to news reaching the Armitstead family at Dundee, Scotland.
The advices add that a grand nephew Lord Armitstead, John Cecil Armitstead, was shot in March after having been in prison three months"
New York Times Nov 2 1919
Tuesday, 16 March 2010
Obituary: Nicolas Worthing (Nicolai Wasilevich Worobjeff) 1913-2002
I've been interested in finding out more about the Russian Refugees and Colonels that came aboard HMS Dragon and were transferred to the Princess Margaret in the midst of the naval action in Riga during October 1919. It hasn't been easy to discover names as none were recorded in the Ship's log. I know that Russians were taken aboard British ships during 1918-1919 but I'm not sure how this was arranged at a time when Riga was obviously a dangerous place to be.
A special thank you, therefore, to B who contacted me through this blog and directed me to the website for the Exmouth and Rolle College Chess Club where this fascinating obituary can be found for Nicolas Worthing, a former member of their Club, who died aged 88 having "lived the life of a retired English gentleman that belied an extraordinary life story...
He was born in 1913 in St. Petersburg and christened Nicolai Wasilevich Worobjeff (pronounced Vorobioff), son of a rich businessman and aristocratic mother. During the civil unrest leading up to the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917, his father, fearing for the family’s safety, moved them back to his home town of Rybinsk, north of Moscow. One evening, while walking along the riverbank that ran through his estate there, he overheard two men discussing whether they should "put Worobjeff in a sack and throw him in the Volga". Realising from this the way things were going in Russia, he decided the family had to leave the country, and plans were made, involving forged papers and a risky trip by train, in a horse wagon, heading for Pskov, on the border with German-occupied Latvia, in scenes reminiscent of the film Dr. Zhivago. Here, their ruse was uncovered by the Bolshevik passport Commisar, who accepted a large bribe to let them through, and they made their way to Riga. However, at the end of the Great War the German forces in Latvia were simply replaced by the Bolsheviks, and the family had to move on. They enlisted the help of Captain Smyth of HMS Princess Margaret, then stationed off Riga to resist the Russian advance. The Captain took pity on them and took them to Leith, near Edinburgh" .....
I wonder if Nicolas might have been one of the group of "Russian refugees" mentioned in the ship's log for HMS Princess Margaret and Dragon and whether there was any link between his family and the medal commemorating the deliverance of the passengers of Princess Margaret from the Bolsheviks.
I've also discovered that he was mentioned in dispatches for service during WW2. The record of this is held at the National archives WO 373/88 and is available online.
Captain (acting Lieutenant) Worobjeff who has been in charge of a Light Aid Detachment RAOC for the past 21 months has proved himself to be an officer of outstanding ability and merit....."
Unfortunately, my emails to members of the Chess club have been returned undelivered, no doubt the email addresses are out of date (I notice that the Obituary was published possibly in 2004) and so I will keep trying.
It's a great story I think. I'm sure there must be many more.
A special thank you, therefore, to B who contacted me through this blog and directed me to the website for the Exmouth and Rolle College Chess Club where this fascinating obituary can be found for Nicolas Worthing, a former member of their Club, who died aged 88 having "lived the life of a retired English gentleman that belied an extraordinary life story...
He was born in 1913 in St. Petersburg and christened Nicolai Wasilevich Worobjeff (pronounced Vorobioff), son of a rich businessman and aristocratic mother. During the civil unrest leading up to the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917, his father, fearing for the family’s safety, moved them back to his home town of Rybinsk, north of Moscow. One evening, while walking along the riverbank that ran through his estate there, he overheard two men discussing whether they should "put Worobjeff in a sack and throw him in the Volga". Realising from this the way things were going in Russia, he decided the family had to leave the country, and plans were made, involving forged papers and a risky trip by train, in a horse wagon, heading for Pskov, on the border with German-occupied Latvia, in scenes reminiscent of the film Dr. Zhivago. Here, their ruse was uncovered by the Bolshevik passport Commisar, who accepted a large bribe to let them through, and they made their way to Riga. However, at the end of the Great War the German forces in Latvia were simply replaced by the Bolsheviks, and the family had to move on. They enlisted the help of Captain Smyth of HMS Princess Margaret, then stationed off Riga to resist the Russian advance. The Captain took pity on them and took them to Leith, near Edinburgh" .....
The rest of the obituary is equally fascinating and I was keen to learn more about him. He's definately someone I would love to have met!
I wonder if Nicolas might have been one of the group of "Russian refugees" mentioned in the ship's log for HMS Princess Margaret and Dragon and whether there was any link between his family and the medal commemorating the deliverance of the passengers of Princess Margaret from the Bolsheviks.
I've also discovered that he was mentioned in dispatches for service during WW2. The record of this is held at the National archives WO 373/88 and is available online.
Captain (acting Lieutenant) Worobjeff who has been in charge of a Light Aid Detachment RAOC for the past 21 months has proved himself to be an officer of outstanding ability and merit....."
Unfortunately, my emails to members of the Chess club have been returned undelivered, no doubt the email addresses are out of date (I notice that the Obituary was published possibly in 2004) and so I will keep trying.
It's a great story I think. I'm sure there must be many more.
Saturday, 13 March 2010
New York Times : "Allied ships shell Germans near Riga" 15-17 October 1919
An interesting read with many new details. The full article is available here
Saturday, 6 March 2010
Medal commemorating the deliverance of the passengers of the 'Princess Margaret' from the Bolsheviks, 1919
I recently took a trip to the National Maritime Museum in Greenwich where I had arranged a viewing of the medal as I had hoped that there might be additional information but unfortunately this was not the case.
It is a nice medal and the museum was a really interesting place to visit. With cheap parking next to Greenwich Park and free entrance into the museum it wasn't a wasted trip.
It is a nice medal and the museum was a really interesting place to visit. With cheap parking next to Greenwich Park and free entrance into the museum it wasn't a wasted trip.
Saturday, 2 January 2010
“Lacplesa Diena” Bear Slayer Day
General von der Goltz was forced to return to Germany by the British, but the remaining German forces concentrated, regrouped and rearmed around Jelgava. Now, they formally joined the “West Russian Volunteer Army” led by Russian General Pavel Bermont who also called himself Prince Avalov as he claimed he was descended from the Georgian princely family of Avalishvili (Avalov) on his mother's side. In October 1919, they moved on Riga. Now the Latvian National Government was confronted by a two front war. The Latvians call this part of the war the “Bermontiade”.
For a while the new front stabilized on the Daugava River, where it ran right through the center of Riga. Then, on the 11th of November, the Latvian forces supported by gunfire from the American heavy cruiser USS Pittsburgh and several Royal Navy and French ships, crossed the Daugava in boats near its estuary hitting the Bermontiade in the left flank. With that their morale, which had never been the best, collapsed, as the German rank and file were by now quite weary of an endless war which they understood the Allied Forces whose ships stood offshore, would never allow them to win. General, Prince Bermont abandoned his men and the Lithuanians destroyed the last of their military capacity at Radvilskis as they tried to retreat through Lithuania. For the Latvians, the victory brought a bounty of heavy weapons, as the Germans abandoned their artillery, armored cars and aircraft. 11 November is celebrated in Latvia as “Lacplesa Diena”, the Latvian Armed Forces Day.
Reference : www.emilija-benjamin.com
Read more
While I knew about the contribution of the British and French Navy this is the first time I have read about there being the American heavy cruiser USS Pittsburgh in the vicinity.
Angela
For a while the new front stabilized on the Daugava River, where it ran right through the center of Riga. Then, on the 11th of November, the Latvian forces supported by gunfire from the American heavy cruiser USS Pittsburgh and several Royal Navy and French ships, crossed the Daugava in boats near its estuary hitting the Bermontiade in the left flank. With that their morale, which had never been the best, collapsed, as the German rank and file were by now quite weary of an endless war which they understood the Allied Forces whose ships stood offshore, would never allow them to win. General, Prince Bermont abandoned his men and the Lithuanians destroyed the last of their military capacity at Radvilskis as they tried to retreat through Lithuania. For the Latvians, the victory brought a bounty of heavy weapons, as the Germans abandoned their artillery, armored cars and aircraft. 11 November is celebrated in Latvia as “Lacplesa Diena”, the Latvian Armed Forces Day.
Reference : www.emilija-benjamin.com
Read more
While I knew about the contribution of the British and French Navy this is the first time I have read about there being the American heavy cruiser USS Pittsburgh in the vicinity.
Angela
Wednesday, 30 December 2009
OOPS!!! Escaped British POW's arrested on their return to England in 1919
Sometimes I get sidetracked as I look for information relating to British Naval Operations in the Baltic and I go off on a completely different path to the one I'd planned but that's one of the reasons why I so enjoy this hobby as you never know where it will take you!
On this occasion I was looking for information about the poor morale amongst the so called "volunteers" out in the Baltic and somehow I stumbled on this ......
Sir THOMAS BRAMSDON asked the Secretary for War whether the three soldiers recently released from captivity in Moscow were arrested by a military policeman on their arrival in Hull; whether they were confined for the night in cells in the police station; whether they were refused newspapers and their freedom; and, if so, what is the reason for this treatment, and will these men be set at liberty?
Mr. CHURCHILL I will answer at the same time two private notice questions on the same subject. I regret that a mistake should have been committed in this case owing to a misunderstanding of the expression "escaped prisoners" which occurred in the telegram received from Helsingfors about these men, and was repeated in the War Office message. Orders were, of course, issued at the earliest moment to send these men on leave to their homes.
§
[The Private Notice Questions were:
§
Mr. LUNN To ask the Prime Minister whether Privates Richards, pickard and Davison, ex-prisoners from Russia, on arrival at Hull on 29th November, were handed over to the
military police; whether they were then kept over the week end in military cells at the
police station; whether for two days they were allowed no papers, were fed on Army rations, and were not allowed to smoke, or to see their friends and relations; whether these men are now detained in hospital, and for what reason; and whether the arrest and detention of these men represents the considered policy of His Majesty's Government towards returned prisoners of war, or was it the act of an irresponsible official; and what steps is it proposed to take in this matter?
§
Mr. HAROLD BRIGGS To ask the Secretary of State for War if he has knowledge that the three Privates, Davidson, Pickard and Richards, who have recently been released by the Bolshevists and handed over to the British authorities by Mr. Litvinoff, have been detained by tine Military Police, and are not permitted either to see or communicate with their relatives, and does he consider such action is justifiable or lawful?]
Sir C. KNLOCH-COOKE Is it possible for a. Minister to answer a private notice question at the same time as a starred question? Is it not the rule that private notice questions cannot be given on a subject covered by a question on the Paper?
§
Mr. SPEAKER Private notice was given of two questions with regard to a matter already on the Paper. I do not see anything improper in it.
§
Mr. W. THORNE Has an apology been sent to the men in question?
§
Mr. CHURCHILL No.
§
Mr. CLYNES Will any consideration be given to these men in the form of some recompense?
§
Mr. CHURCHILL I am not prepared to give any undertaking. I share my right hon. Friend's feelings of regret that men returning from hard service and misfortune abroad should have met with so unceremonious and chilling a welcome on their arrival in their native land.
§
Mr. HOGGE Can the right hon. Gentleman tell the House what actually happened?
§
Mr. CHURCHILL I have done so. By mistake they were detained in Hull by the police and
authorities, but as soon as the mistake was known and telegrams could be sent
stating the facts, they were released on leave and sent to their homes.
§
Mr. ROSE Are any steps being taken to punish the people who made this mistake?
§
Mr. CHURCHILL I do not quite understand how the hon. Member can at one moment be so fall of sympathy for these men, and so full of malevolence towards people who may unwittingly have made a mistake.
§
Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHY If these men were escaped prisoners from Russia, what reason was there for arresting them and putting them in the cells?
§
Mr. CHURCHILL If they had been described as escaped prisoners of war escaping from the enemy, no doubt the mistake would not have arisen; but they were described as escaped prisoners.
§
Mr. DEVLIN Was not the whole thing caused by the belief that these men were in Ireland?
I love it that these documents are now online and it's a bonus that Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHY has taken an interest.
HC Deb 03 December 1919 vol 122 cc396-8 396
On this occasion I was looking for information about the poor morale amongst the so called "volunteers" out in the Baltic and somehow I stumbled on this ......
Sir THOMAS BRAMSDON asked the Secretary for War whether the three soldiers recently released from captivity in Moscow were arrested by a military policeman on their arrival in Hull; whether they were confined for the night in cells in the police station; whether they were refused newspapers and their freedom; and, if so, what is the reason for this treatment, and will these men be set at liberty?
Mr. CHURCHILL I will answer at the same time two private notice questions on the same subject. I regret that a mistake should have been committed in this case owing to a misunderstanding of the expression "escaped prisoners" which occurred in the telegram received from Helsingfors about these men, and was repeated in the War Office message. Orders were, of course, issued at the earliest moment to send these men on leave to their homes.
§
[The Private Notice Questions were:
§
Mr. LUNN To ask the Prime Minister whether Privates Richards, pickard and Davison, ex-prisoners from Russia, on arrival at Hull on 29th November, were handed over to the
military police; whether they were then kept over the week end in military cells at the
police station; whether for two days they were allowed no papers, were fed on Army rations, and were not allowed to smoke, or to see their friends and relations; whether these men are now detained in hospital, and for what reason; and whether the arrest and detention of these men represents the considered policy of His Majesty's Government towards returned prisoners of war, or was it the act of an irresponsible official; and what steps is it proposed to take in this matter?
§
Mr. HAROLD BRIGGS To ask the Secretary of State for War if he has knowledge that the three Privates, Davidson, Pickard and Richards, who have recently been released by the Bolshevists and handed over to the British authorities by Mr. Litvinoff, have been detained by tine Military Police, and are not permitted either to see or communicate with their relatives, and does he consider such action is justifiable or lawful?]
Sir C. KNLOCH-COOKE Is it possible for a. Minister to answer a private notice question at the same time as a starred question? Is it not the rule that private notice questions cannot be given on a subject covered by a question on the Paper?
§
Mr. SPEAKER Private notice was given of two questions with regard to a matter already on the Paper. I do not see anything improper in it.
§
Mr. W. THORNE Has an apology been sent to the men in question?
§
Mr. CHURCHILL No.
§
Mr. CLYNES Will any consideration be given to these men in the form of some recompense?
§
Mr. CHURCHILL I am not prepared to give any undertaking. I share my right hon. Friend's feelings of regret that men returning from hard service and misfortune abroad should have met with so unceremonious and chilling a welcome on their arrival in their native land.
§
Mr. HOGGE Can the right hon. Gentleman tell the House what actually happened?
§
Mr. CHURCHILL I have done so. By mistake they were detained in Hull by the police and
authorities, but as soon as the mistake was known and telegrams could be sent
stating the facts, they were released on leave and sent to their homes.
§
Mr. ROSE Are any steps being taken to punish the people who made this mistake?
§
Mr. CHURCHILL I do not quite understand how the hon. Member can at one moment be so fall of sympathy for these men, and so full of malevolence towards people who may unwittingly have made a mistake.
§
Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHY If these men were escaped prisoners from Russia, what reason was there for arresting them and putting them in the cells?
§
Mr. CHURCHILL If they had been described as escaped prisoners of war escaping from the enemy, no doubt the mistake would not have arisen; but they were described as escaped prisoners.
§
Mr. DEVLIN Was not the whole thing caused by the belief that these men were in Ireland?
I love it that these documents are now online and it's a bonus that Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHY has taken an interest.
HC Deb 03 December 1919 vol 122 cc396-8 396
Friday, 18 December 2009
Memorial event for HMS "Dragon" on the eve of the Remembrance Day (17/11/2009)
I've recently noticed this on the British Embassy in Riga website. The website also contains photographs of the ceremony itself.
"Today we salute and honour bravery. The bravery of those men who died in the defence of the freedom and integrity of an independent Latvia. Not only sons of Latvia but also foreign friends who made common cause with them - including from Britain and France. We remember them all."
Deputy Head of Mission, Daniel Grzenda
"Today we salute and honour bravery. The bravery of those men who died in the defence of the freedom and integrity of an independent Latvia. Not only sons of Latvia but also foreign friends who made common cause with them - including from Britain and France. We remember them all."
Deputy Head of Mission, Daniel Grzenda
Thank you to Yury Melkonov for this photograph.
Thursday, 17 December 2009
John Stephen Stroud 1881-1919
My Great-Grandfather John Stroud was born on the 5th May 1881 in Southwark, London. During his childhood he lived in Rotherhithe close to the River Thames and the busy Docks and later he was employed as a Blacksmith's Boy, at least that was his occupation on joining the Royal Navy aged 17.
After his training (HMS Northampton) between April and September 1899 he served on the cruiser HMS Calliope before being based at HMS Pembroke at Chatham.
I haven't even started to look into John's Naval career between 1899 and World War 2 as I've been so fascinated with the mysterious turn of events which leading up to his death, in 1919. I know from his records that he served on many ships including HMS Monarch (3 Nov 1899-31 Dec 1899) and HMS Terrible (1 Jan 1900-21 Mar 00) during the 2nd Boer war and literally saw the world during his time at sea.
His daughter, my Great Aunt told me that he loved the Navy and used to bring back presents from faraway places including China. Though only young at the time she had memories of being picked up by her father and being fascinated by the shiny buttons on his uniform. My Aunt also remembers the letter arriving informing her that John had been killed in action, her Mum's distress and the journey by tram to see John's parents. So Elizabeth his wife was like so many of that generation became a widow and the 2 girls grew up without a father. Elizabeth did not remarry and later warned her daughters not to fall in love with a sailor as it would break their heart.
I don't remember seeing photos of John or hearing of him as I was growing up, and it was only a chance conversation with my Nan towards the end of her life when she mentioned that her father, having survived 20 years in the Navy, including service during war conditions and WW1 had died while on a "secret" rescue mission in Russia when he was 38. My Nan said that the family were not told about the mission as it was all so secretive and unfortunately she died before information became more easily available and travel to the now Independant Latvia was possible. I think she would have been so interested in the Remembrance events that take place each year in Riga and so pleased that the men killed in action during this campaign have not been forgotten.
After his training (HMS Northampton) between April and September 1899 he served on the cruiser HMS Calliope before being based at HMS Pembroke at Chatham.
I haven't even started to look into John's Naval career between 1899 and World War 2 as I've been so fascinated with the mysterious turn of events which leading up to his death, in 1919. I know from his records that he served on many ships including HMS Monarch (3 Nov 1899-31 Dec 1899) and HMS Terrible (1 Jan 1900-21 Mar 00) during the 2nd Boer war and literally saw the world during his time at sea.
His daughter, my Great Aunt told me that he loved the Navy and used to bring back presents from faraway places including China. Though only young at the time she had memories of being picked up by her father and being fascinated by the shiny buttons on his uniform. My Aunt also remembers the letter arriving informing her that John had been killed in action, her Mum's distress and the journey by tram to see John's parents. So Elizabeth his wife was like so many of that generation became a widow and the 2 girls grew up without a father. Elizabeth did not remarry and later warned her daughters not to fall in love with a sailor as it would break their heart.
I don't remember seeing photos of John or hearing of him as I was growing up, and it was only a chance conversation with my Nan towards the end of her life when she mentioned that her father, having survived 20 years in the Navy, including service during war conditions and WW1 had died while on a "secret" rescue mission in Russia when he was 38. My Nan said that the family were not told about the mission as it was all so secretive and unfortunately she died before information became more easily available and travel to the now Independant Latvia was possible. I think she would have been so interested in the Remembrance events that take place each year in Riga and so pleased that the men killed in action during this campaign have not been forgotten.
Mr Charles Edward Coles R.N. Gunner
Mr Charles Edward Coles R.N. Gunner was at his action station in after control when an enemy shell burst on deck in rear of No 5 Gun killing 9 men and severely wounding 1 officer and 3 men, also setting alight the charge which was just being loaded into gun. Mr Coles at once went to the spot and took prompt action personally removing the wounded clear of the burning cordite and extinguishing the burning clothing of the wounded men.
There are 2 others singled out for praise, Lieutenant The Hon. Trevor Tempest Parker R.N. Gunnery Officer and Engineer Commander Walter Robert Fendick R.N. and the name Lt. Comdr. Harvey and "The Senior Naval Officer" appears at the bottom of the page.
Unfortunately, I can no longer see the reference for this document.
There are 2 others singled out for praise, Lieutenant The Hon. Trevor Tempest Parker R.N. Gunnery Officer and Engineer Commander Walter Robert Fendick R.N. and the name Lt. Comdr. Harvey and "The Senior Naval Officer" appears at the bottom of the page.
Unfortunately, I can no longer see the reference for this document.
HMS Dragon log for Saturday 18th October 1919 at Riga
Occasionally, I see something in the records that seems out of place and quite unrelated to what I am looking for but is nevertheless quite fascinating as it gives an insight into life in the Navy at this time.
This entry in the log, dated the 18th October 1919, appears to have been written only hours after the 9 men/ boys had been killed and as their bodies were being prepared for burial by other probably traumatised young seamen. Elsewhere, 4 wounded seamen were probably having their wounds tended and repairs were taking place on board the ship....I would imagine it was a scene of chaos!!!!!
"The following articles were found missing after H.R.H. The Prince of Wales and Staff disembarked from Dragon for "Renown". Towels,two. Sheets Linen, three. Pillows feather, one"
well I wonder what happened to them and if they have ever been found or if they will ever just turn up on ebay. I would imagine that the pillows would have been difficult to hide.......I've heard about towels going missing in hotels but...
Next to this was another quite "random" entry
" I had occasion on this day to reprimand ...(name indistinct) Gunner(?), W. Roberts, Shipwright and W.Skelton Gunner for having during the month of September exceeded the amounts allowed by King's regulations for Warrant Officers Wine Bills" I had to read this a few times but I'm pretty sure that's what it says.
This entry in the log, dated the 18th October 1919, appears to have been written only hours after the 9 men/ boys had been killed and as their bodies were being prepared for burial by other probably traumatised young seamen. Elsewhere, 4 wounded seamen were probably having their wounds tended and repairs were taking place on board the ship....I would imagine it was a scene of chaos!!!!!
"The following articles were found missing after H.R.H. The Prince of Wales and Staff disembarked from Dragon for "Renown". Towels,two. Sheets Linen, three. Pillows feather, one"
well I wonder what happened to them and if they have ever been found or if they will ever just turn up on ebay. I would imagine that the pillows would have been difficult to hide.......I've heard about towels going missing in hotels but...
Next to this was another quite "random" entry
" I had occasion on this day to reprimand ...(name indistinct) Gunner(?), W. Roberts, Shipwright and W.Skelton Gunner for having during the month of September exceeded the amounts allowed by King's regulations for Warrant Officers Wine Bills" I had to read this a few times but I'm pretty sure that's what it says.
Tuesday, 8 December 2009
Bermondt-Avalov
"Bermondt, who has been trying to take Riga (middle of October) with
, a force described as Russian but r e a l l y consisting largely of
troops from von der Goltz's corps, is said to be a Cossack Colonel
of some military experience, who organised a volunteer force
against the Bolsheviks at Kieff in 1918. On the withdrawal of
the Germans from the Ukraine he was arrested and sentenced to
death but escaped. His wife is said to have been killed by the
Bolsheviks at Petrograd. His r e a l name is Prince Avalov-
Bermondt, and he is described, as a wealthy landowner of Finland
("Morning Post", "Stockholm Telegram", October 16th, 1919)"
, a force described as Russian but r e a l l y consisting largely of
troops from von der Goltz's corps, is said to be a Cossack Colonel
of some military experience, who organised a volunteer force
against the Bolsheviks at Kieff in 1918. On the withdrawal of
the Germans from the Ukraine he was arrested and sentenced to
death but escaped. His wife is said to have been killed by the
Bolsheviks at Petrograd. His r e a l name is Prince Avalov-
Bermondt, and he is described, as a wealthy landowner of Finland
("Morning Post", "Stockholm Telegram", October 16th, 1919)"
I found this quote hidden in some documents that I had downloaded on the National Archives website and I found the photo on google images. It seems to be used on alot of other websites. I've no idea when and why it was taken.
I will try to locate a reference for the quote later if anyone needs it. It's amazing how many records are now online compared with the early 1990's when I got hooked on this hobby!
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